View source for Purchasing a vehicle

[[File:August evenings van side door open lighting.jpg|thumb|alt=A view of a parked campervan with its side door open to reveal the kitchen and seating areas inside]]<section begin="intro" />You're on your way to [[purchasing a vehicle]] to start living the [[nomadic life]]! This page can guide you as you begin the process of buy a van: finding it, assessing it, and proceeding with the purchase.<section end="intro" />

== Finding the right vehicle ==
First, explore the [[vehicle options]] that fit your needs for the kind of [[nomadic life]] you want. Get familiar with the [[vehicle features to consider]]. If you can, take a week or a weekend to [[rent a van]] to try things out and get a feel for living in a small space on the road. Take a look at the vehicles currently for sale to get an idea of current prices ({{ad|RVT text link}}), and then begin the process of finding, assessing, and actually buying the vehicle that works for you.

== Assessing a vehicle for possible purchase ==
Do extensive research on the exact make and model of vehicle you're looking at. You should go into every potential buying inspection knowing ''more'' about that specific model of vehicle than the seller does. Before you even go to look at a vehicle in person, you want to know things like:
* What were the differences in generations for that vehicle?
* What were the engine/transmission/interior/options offered for that year/make/model?
* What are the [[known vehicle issues]] for that specific vehicle? Owner forums for specific models can be ''immensely'' valuable for finding this!
* What are the factory recommended service intervals? For example, how often does the manufacturer recommend things like transmission fluid changes, serpentine belt replacement, cam chain/belt changes, waterpump rebuilds, A/C system recharges, coolant flushes, brake fluid changes, etc?

=== Odometer ===
Not all miles/kms are created equal. "City" driving, characterized by frequent short trips and start-stop driving, causes immensely more wear and tear per mile than cruising down the highway.

As a ''HUGE'' over simplification for the chassis/engine/body itself:
* '''0-10,000 miles''': Higher risk of manufacturing defects, failures or repairs needed due to build issues.
* '''10,000-100,000 miles''': Usually the most trouble-free period, but also expensive to buy something used.
* '''100,000-150,000 miles''': The sweet spot. Maintenance items will start to become more common, but most vehicles will still be pretty reliable. Depreciation has taken its biggest bite so prices start to become quite reasonable.
* '''150,000-200,000''': Minor repairs will start to be needed, but the purchase prices can be low enough to make it worth it. See the [[known vehicle issues]] page for some common model-specific failure points to watch out for. Having some mechanical abilities are useful to help differentiate the "oh that's annoying but I can live with it" problems from the "shut down the engine immediately to prevent further damage" problems.
* '''200,000-300,000 miles''': Vans with this many miles can be ''very'' cheap if you are savvy, but this is also where miles can start to be a concern. If you're buying something with this mileage, you should be capable of doing minor to medium repairs yourself. Passenger vans are typically in better shape with higher mileage. Especially if you can find something that did a lot of highway driving (like airport shuttles), this many miles might not be ''as'' much of a problem.
* '''300,000+ miles''': This is the danger zone, only experienced mechanics should be looking for vehicles in this range. They can still be acceptably reliable, but you need to know what you're doing.

=== Mechanic's inspection ===

If the vehicle still interests you after the above it is time for a '''pre-sale inspection'''. The potential vehicle is taken to a preselected mechanic (who knows you're coming!) to have it professionally inspected. This usually takes less than an hour and costs $50-$125.

If you're buying a factory-made [[RV]], you'll want to take it to an RV-capable repair shop to have it inspected by someone who specializes in RVs. These inspections take much longer and are more expensive, because they are checking many more systems. Expect to pay $150-250 and it might take a few hours.

If the seller balks at the inspection, you might sweeten the deal by offering to provide him with a copy of the inspection. This will reassure him you are honest and give him something to show other buyers if you decide to pass on the sale. If the seller still won't allow the vehicle to be inspected it may be safest to assume they are hiding something about the vehicle's condition.

On new or nearly-new vehicles the mechanic may find nothing interesting. On older vehicles there will generally be work needed immediately or at some future time; this isn't necessarily a problem, but you should take it into account when negotiating the price of the vehicle. The mechanic should be able to ballpark the costs of the needed repairs.

== Registration and Titling ==
{{#lst:Vehicle registration and titling|intro}}

=== Get a VIN check ===
[[VIN]] checks are not perfect but can provide usable information about a potential vehicle. Individual checks can be expensive, so if you are in heavy hunting mode it can be much cheaper to get a bulk allotment of VIN checks or an unlimited number in a certain period.  

The most popular paid VIN check service is Carfax. Next in line is [https://www.autocheck.com/ Autocheck], with [https://www.autocheck.com/vehiclehistory/autocheck/en/AutoCheck-vehicle-history-reports/25-Reports-for-21-Days/p/10025bulk checks available]. Free checks can be obtained from the [https://www.nicb.org/how-we-help/vincheck National Insurance Crime Bureau] for stolen/salvage/totaled vehicles, from [https://www.vehiclehistory.com/ vehiclehistory.com], and the [https://www.carfax.com/press/resources/flooded-cars Carfax flood check].

== Assessing Quality and Condition ==
=== Living space build quality ===
Interior cabinetry is a good indication of overall construction quality. Cabinets made of paper veneer over particle board or MDF are cheap, and are indicative of the overall cost target for the construction. Rvs that are targeted for weekend use can be made inexpensively because they don't get much wear and tear.<ref>http://www.rvforum.net/SMF_forum/index.php/topic,67978.msg621288.html#msg621288</ref>

=== Condition ===
The general advice on the [[Cheap RV Living]] forums is to buy on condition first.<ref>http://www.cheaprvliving.com/forums/Thread-What-matters-most-Age-Or-Miles</ref> A vehicle with lots of miles but in good condition with all maintenance records may be a better bet than a vehicle with fewer miles but in rougher condition or with unknown maintenance history.

=== Rust ===
No [[rust]] is obviously better than rusted, but body panel rust is less serious than frame rust (for example). Your mechanic will be able to advise what is cosmetic and what is problematic.

=== Known issues ===
All vehicles have [[known vehicle issues|known issues]]; these are weak points or problems that may happen more frequently on that platform compared to others. There are no perfect vans, no perfect campers. Knowing what the common issues are can help you look for (or ask about) common problems.

== Buying non-local vehicles ==
If the vehicle is not local to you, consider asking a forum member who lives in that area to lay eyes on it for you. It won't be a full mechanic's inspection, but it can give you an idea whether or not to travel there to see it for yourself.

There are also RV and Vehicle inspectors who will travel to the vehicle to inspect it. The price is generally higher and they will not be able to lift the vehicle onto an overhead rack for thorough underside inspection.{{ad|RVT}}

----
== Finding your camper ==

== Know what you're looking for ==

First, [[know your vehicle options]] and decide if you will [[lifestyle:faq_prebuilt_camper|buy pre-built or build your own]].

== Limit your search geographically ==

Unlike buying a car or other common vehicle, there's a good chance you'll need to travel a significant distance to make a good purchase, especially if you're seeking a very niche vehicle. You might be limited to vehicles near you if you can't afford to make potentially multiple trips to see far-away vehicles, but the expense of travel could more than pay for itself if you find a good deal on exactly the vehicle you need.

'''Florida** and **Arizona''' has been touted as a place to find commercial campers and RVs. Retirees from the NE plan to RV together in that warm state but either change their mind, upgrade to another RV, or stop RVing because of health or age reasons. There is no ice in Florida (hence no road salt) but do look for rust caused by salt water breezes or drives on the beach. 

The '''American Southwest''' is another good place as there is no road salt. Paint can be degraded by "sun fade"<ref>http://www.cheaprvliving.com/forums/Thread-Which-regions-are-good-for-finding-used-vans-or-RV-s?pid=157204#pid157204</ref> but that is cosmetic rather than functional. Tires can be dry rotted and dashboards and interiors sun-damaged.<ref>http://www.cheaprvliving.com/forums/Thread-Might-buy-van-in-Denver-possible-altitude-complications?pid=231111#pid231111</ref>

'''Colorado''' does not use road salt, relying on gravel instead. Locals advise that cracked windshields from gravel are to be expected.<ref>http://www.cheaprvliving.com/forums/Thread-Might-buy-van-in-Denver-possible-altitude-complications?pid=228754#pid228754</ref> 4x4 campers may be more common in mountainous areas.

Vehicles that have not been on the beach in '''California''' will be in good condition but may be more expensive<ref>http://www.cheaprvliving.com/forums/Thread-Which-regions-are-good-for-finding-used-vans-or-RV-s?pid=157213#pid157213</ref> due to higher cost of living.
----
== Finding vans ==
Once you know geographically where to look the search comes next. 

Take advantage of any automation tools the site offers (email alerts, saved searches, RSS feeds).((it looks like [https://forums.craigslist.org/?SQ=rss&act=searchFrameMaker&forumID=9 CL discontinued RSS feeds] in latre 2020.)) 

* [https://www.craigslist.org/about/sites craigslist] is probably the first place folks look. It sequesters results by region, so if you want national results uses something like [https://www.searchtempest.com/ searchtempest]. (leverage RSS results to automate the process)
* Ebay motors - (leverage saved searches to automate the process)
* [https://www.autotrader.com/ AutoTrader], Truck Trader, RV Trader, etc.
* [https://www.autotempest.com/ Autotempest] - Aggregates results from many different sites
* local classifieds
* Facebook marketplace
* vans you see for sale locally
* truck sales lots will have cargo vans, box trucks, etc. Some [[high tops]].
* Government fleet auctions
* Police auctions 
* [https://vandom.co/ vandom.co]

{{Product|full|RVT}}

----

== Vans to look for ==

If you can buy something that already has part of what you want, even better.

Former '''Ambulances''' can make good starters for a built, due to pre-existing high-tops, beefy electrical systems and cabinets. However they often have a lot of hours of idling on them, and many are diesel which are [[problematic]].

'''Wheelchair Vans''' can be great to start with. Many will have fiberglass high roofs added, or larger doors. If you can find one that still has the hydraulic ramp in it, many mobility conversion companies will remove them for free and might even pay you a few hundred dollars for them.

'''Passenger vans''' can be better than cargo vans, especially the extended [[Ford E-Series|E-Series]] or [[Transits]] that were sold from the factory in a full passenger configuration. They're used frequently for airport shuttles or fleet transportation usage, which often means mostly highway miles which are less impactful than stop-and-go city driving that can be seen by delivery vans. Because they're mostly transporting people, you don't have to worry (as much) about damage or contamination from possibly toxic chemicals, paints or other substances that tradesman might commonly transport.

The former church or nursing home transportation van is the golden ticket if you can find them for sale.

The downside is they're usually going to have windows all around (which can reduce security/[[stealth]]/[[insulation]]) and you'll have to go through the trouble of pulling the seats out.

----
== Vans to rule out ==

Some vans will be a "hard no", as in "walk away". Others may need to be heavily discounted to account for required maintenance, condition, or branded title.<ref>like a SALVAGE title</ref>

Also see:  [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRD3fZnJK_I Don't buy a lemon] (yt Bob Wells)
=== Untitled vehicles ===

Untitled vehicles can be nightmares. Here are some questions to ask to avoid this issue:  

* "Do you have the title in hand?" 
* "Does the name on the title match your ID?" 

=== uninspectable ===

Rule out vans from any seller that will not allow the van to be inspected by a mechanic. This is called a "'''pre-sale inspection'''" (PSI) or similar, and typically costs $0 - $150. Many/most expensive horror stories could be avoided with a PSI. 

=== Bad VIN ===

The VIN must [https://www.reddit.com/r/RVLiving/comments/ou5wt9/unraveling_the_mystery_of_our_recently_purchased/ match the title]. 

The [https://www.vehiclehistory.com/vehicle/land.php free Vehicle History VIN check] will show a surprising amount of info from various public sources.

The free [https://www.nicb.org/theft_and_fraud_awareness/vincheck/ NCIB VIN check] will identify salvaged (totaled) and stolen vehicles.

The [https://www.carfax.com/press/resources/flooded-cars free Carfax Flood VIN check] will identify flooded vehicles.

[https://www.checkthatvin.com/stc/ Check That VIN] is currently the lowest cost VIN check for branded titles or liens at $3.99. You [http://www.aamva.org/WorkArea/linkit.aspx?LinkIdentifier=id&ItemID=2701&libID=2687 may be able] to get this information for free from your state. The federal reminds us that:
> Consumers CANNOT receive NMVTIS Vehicle History Reports from Carfax, CVR, DMVDesk, Experian, or TitleTech; these five entities provide information only to car dealerships.<ref>https://www.vehiclehistory.gov/nmvtis_vehiclehistory.html</ref>

If your vehicle passes all those you might want to look at the [https://www.nhtsa.gov/recalls free NHTSA recall VIN check] to see if there are any outstanding safety recalls.
=== Flooded vehicles ===

In addition to the VIN check above, pay attention to mold/mildew smells. Lift trunk carpet and look for dried mud. 

=== Vehicles from salt belt states ===

Structural rust can cause the vehicle to be uninspectable, unsafe, and possibly unrepairable unless one is willing to apply heroic levels of money and skill. 

[[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_Belt|{{ https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0f/Salt-Belt.svg/300px-Salt-Belt.svg.png|the "Salt Belt"}}]] 
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_Belt Some states] in the northeast and northern midwest use salt on the roads to melt ice.

Colorado and Utah use non-salt chemicals or gravel on the road. 

Alaska is often too cold for road salt to be used there, so salt use may vary by area. 

=== Fixer-Uppers ===

Don't be tempted by that super-cheap van you found that "needs a little TLC". If the need was little, the seller would have done it already and been able to sell it for a higher price. Unless you ''really'' know what you're doing, avoid buying a fixer-upper as your first van. And I'll be honest; if you're reading this wiki, you probably don't know what you're doing (yet).

''“No van ever cost less than $5,000”''

Don’t start too cheap. Buying beaters or fixer-upper projects is great for people who have a lot of mechanical skills, DIY abilities, and already own a lot of their own tools and have a place to work on it. But if you think you’re going to get an old beater and then pay somebody else to make the repairs, you’re going to end up spending far more money than it would have cost to just buy a more reliable van in the first place.

'''Spend more on the van, spend less on the build out.''' Spend more of your budget to get a solid and reliable van, and reduce your budget for the interior amenities; you will enjoy a reliable van with a bare-bones interior much more than a fancy interior that is broken down on the side of the road.

----
{{stub}}
== Finding your camper ==

== Know what you're looking for ==

First, [[know your vehicle options]] and decide if you will [[lifestyle:faq_prebuilt_camper|buy pre-built or build your own]].

== Limit your search geographically ==

Unlike buying a car or other common vehicle, there's a good chance you'll need to travel a significant distance to make a good purchase, especially if you're seeking a very niche vehicle. You might be limited to vehicles near you if you can't afford to make potentially multiple trips to see far-away vehicles, but the expense of travel could more than pay for itself if you find a good deal on exactly the vehicle you need.

'''Florida** and **Arizona''' has been touted as a place to find commercial campers and RVs. Retirees from the NE plan to RV together in that warm state but either change their mind, upgrade to another RV, or stop RVing because of health or age reasons. There is no ice in Florida (hence no road salt) but do look for rust caused by salt water breezes or drives on the beach. 

The '''American Southwest''' is another good place as there is no road salt. Paint can be degraded by "sun fade"<ref>http://www.cheaprvliving.com/forums/Thread-Which-regions-are-good-for-finding-used-vans-or-RV-s?pid=157204#pid157204</ref> but that is cosmetic rather than functional. Tires can be dry rotted and dashboards and interiors sun-damaged.<ref>http://www.cheaprvliving.com/forums/Thread-Might-buy-van-in-Denver-possible-altitude-complications?pid=231111#pid231111</ref>

'''Colorado''' does not use road salt, relying on gravel instead. Locals advise that cracked windshields from gravel are to be expected.<ref>http://www.cheaprvliving.com/forums/Thread-Might-buy-van-in-Denver-possible-altitude-complications?pid=228754#pid228754</ref> 4x4 campers may be more common in mountainous areas.

Vehicles that have not been on the beach in '''California''' will be in good condition but may be more expensive<ref>http://www.cheaprvliving.com/forums/Thread-Which-regions-are-good-for-finding-used-vans-or-RV-s?pid=157213#pid157213</ref> due to higher cost of living.
----
== Finding vans ==
Once you know geographically where to look the [[search]] comes next. 

Take advantage of any automation tools the site offers (email alerts, saved searches, RSS feeds).((it looks like [https://forums.craigslist.org/?SQ=rss&act=searchFrameMaker&forumID=9 CL discontinued RSS feeds] in latre 2020.)) 

* [https://www.craigslist.org/about/sites craigslist] is probably the first place folks look. It sequesters results by region, so if you want national results uses something like [https://www.searchtempest.com/ searchtempest]. (leverage RSS results to automate the process)
* Ebay motors - (leverage saved searches to automate the process)
* [https://www.autotrader.com/ AutoTrader], Truck Trader, RV Trader, etc.
* [https://www.autotempest.com/ Autotempest] - Aggregates results from many different sites
* local classifieds
* Facebook marketplace
* vans you see for sale locally
* truck sales lots will have cargo vans, box trucks, etc. Some [[high tops]].
* Government fleet auctions
* Police auctions 
* [https://vandom.co/ vandom.co]

----
== Vans to look for ==

If you can buy something that already has part of what you want, even better.

Former '''Ambulances''' can make good starters for a built, due to pre-existing high-tops, beefy electrical systems and cabinets. However they often have a lot of hours of idling on them, and many are diesel which are [[problematic]].

'''Wheelchair Vans''' can be great to start with. Many will have fiberglass high roofs added, or larger doors. If you can find one that still has the hydraulic ramp in it, many mobility conversion companies will remove them for free and might even pay you a few hundred dollars for them.

'''Passenger vans''' can be better than cargo vans, especially the extended [[Ford E-Series|E-Series]] or [[Transits]] that were sold from the factory in a full passenger configuration. They're used frequently for airport shuttles or fleet transportation usage, which often means mostly highway miles which are less impactful than stop-and-go city driving that can be seen by delivery vans. Because they're mostly transporting people, you don't have to worry (as much) about damage or contamination from possibly toxic chemicals, paints or other substances that tradesman might commonly transport.

The former church or nursing home transportation van is the golden ticket if you can find them for sale.

The downside is they're usually going to have windows all around (which can reduce security/[[stealth]]/[[insulation]]) and you'll have to go through the trouble of pulling the seats out.

----
== Vans to rule out ==

Some vans will be a "hard no", as in "walk away". Others may need to be heavily discounted to account for required maintenance, condition, or branded title.<ref>like a SALVAGE title</ref>

Also see:  [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRD3fZnJK_I Don't buy a lemon] (yt Bob Wells)
=== Untitled vehicles ===

Untitled vehicles can be nightmares. Here are some questions to ask to avoid this issue:  

* "Do you have the title in hand?" 
* "Does the name on the title match your ID?" 

=== uninspectable ===

Rule out vans from any seller that will not allow the van to be inspected by a mechanic. This is called a "'''pre-sale inspection'''" (PSI) or similar, and typically costs $0 - $150. Many/most expensive horror stories could be avoided with a PSI. 

=== Bad VIN ===

The VIN must [https://www.reddit.com/r/RVLiving/comments/ou5wt9/unraveling_the_mystery_of_our_recently_purchased/ match the title]. 

The [https://www.vehiclehistory.com/vehicle/land.php free Vehicle History VIN check] will show a surprising amount of info from various public sources.

The free [https://www.nicb.org/theft_and_fraud_awareness/vincheck/ NCIB VIN check] will identify salvaged (totaled) and stolen vehicles.

The [https://www.carfax.com/press/resources/flooded-cars free Carfax Flood VIN check] will identify flooded vehicles.

[https://www.checkthatvin.com/stc/ Check That VIN] is currently the lowest cost VIN check for branded titles or liens at $3.99. You [http://www.aamva.org/WorkArea/linkit.aspx?LinkIdentifier=id&ItemID=2701&libID=2687 may be able] to get this information for free from your state. The federal reminds us that:
> Consumers CANNOT receive NMVTIS Vehicle History Reports from Carfax, CVR, DMVDesk, Experian, or TitleTech; these five entities provide information only to car dealerships.<ref>https://www.vehiclehistory.gov/nmvtis_vehiclehistory.html</ref>

If your vehicle passes all those you might want to look at the [https://www.nhtsa.gov/recalls free NHTSA recall VIN check] to see if there are any outstanding safety recalls.
=== Flooded vehicles ===

In addition to the VIN check above, pay attention to mold/mildew smells. Lift trunk carpet and look for dried mud. 

=== Vehicles from salt belt states ===

Structural rust can cause the vehicle to be uninspectable, unsafe, and possibly unrepairable unless one is willing to apply heroic levels of money and skill. 

[[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_Belt|{{ https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0f/Salt-Belt.svg/300px-Salt-Belt.svg.png|the "Salt Belt"}}]] 
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_Belt Some states] in the northeast and northern midwest use salt on the roads to melt ice.

Colorado and Utah use non-salt chemicals or gravel on the road. 

Alaska is often too cold for road salt to be used there, so salt use may vary by area. 

=== Fixer-Uppers ===

Don't be tempted by that super-cheap van you found that "needs a little TLC". If the need was little, the seller would have done it already and been able to sell it for a higher price. Unless you ''really'' know what you're doing, avoid buying a fixer-upper as your first van. And I'll be honest; if you're reading this wiki, you probably don't know what you're doing (yet).

''“No van ever cost less than $5,000”''

Don’t start too cheap. Buying beaters or fixer-upper projects is great for people who have a lot of mechanical skills, DIY abilities, and already own a lot of their own tools and have a place to work on it. But if you think you’re going to get an old beater and then pay somebody else to make the repairs, you’re going to end up spending far more money than it would have cost to just buy a more reliable van in the first place.

'''Spend more on the van, spend less on the build out.''' Spend more of your budget to get a solid and reliable van, and reduce your budget for the interior amenities; you will enjoy a reliable van with a bare-bones interior much more than a fancy interior that is broken down on the side of the road.

{{LST|Selling your vehicle|intro|more|h2}}
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{{rvwiki|url=https://rvwiki.mousetrap.net/doku.php?id=rv:finding}}[[Category:Imported pages]]